asgarzigel: I actually like that Isgarren isn't a straight up good guy and everyone is immediately on board. It was basically suddenly revealed that there is an extremely powerful secret wizard society floating around and as far as Tyrians know they have done nothing to help during the multiple catastrophic events of recent years. It's not surpriising that the world leaders are suspicious of him. He also just kinda is an old curmudgeon in a lot of ways who tends to be a bit condescending to everyone around him. That's not a bad thing, it makes sense from his perspective and I did enjoy how he really tried to reign it back in and be more diplomatic during the Tyrian Alliance meeting.

I don't see him being a full on villain, but he definitely has a few skeletons in his closet and he loves to keep secrets. I think learning more about his and the Astral Wards' history will be an ongoing thing throughout the next few expansions. I also wonder if he himself did the wizard ascension, wouldn't that mean there are parts of his past he doesn't know?


And regarding Joko, I do wonder if he and Isgarren knew each other. Just the thought of these two interacting makes me laugh, they are both ancient powerful magic users but are basically polar opposites in terms of personality / character archetyope.
Asura-meta: What if we just find a big crater, where Bava Nisos used to be...and learn, that Amnytas is basically the Mursaat City lifted into the sky and rebuilt
Gabriel-xh6lg: Just so you are aware there is a book in stoic alders house that shows up after his journey to lions arch which is insightful with his thoughts about everything
hardy83: Someone else said it in the live chat but I love the idea that the Mouth of Zhaitan are Kodan.
That creatures origins were not explicitly stated and you can see how it could have been a Kodan visually.

I love it cause it raises the possibility that that specific lore was there at from the start, like the Kodan with no voice thing.

Actually, thinking about it more, a raised Kodan being the mouth, or Voice of you will, of an Elder Dragon is pretty, ironic? No, symbolic?
ShawnMurphyMusic: 2 hour lore chat in let's "play" lol, glad to hear the passion for Tyria back!
Avenrise: Just gonna plonk this here- there's a dozen blind playthroughs of JW but yours is unique DUE TO your lore ramblings. Hearing you go down all these rabbit holes and being passionate about the story and lore again is a lovely thing to experience with you so feel free to ramble on for hours and stretch this let's play out. It's getting my brain working again regarding where the story could be possibly heading.
kelmor11: Isgarren has 10000 years of watching his people vanish, and the world slowly tear itself apart. The man gets to have some feels now and again :P
xuzhang9580: The whole SotO story being a personal grudge between Isgarren and Eparch is really intriguing. When you look at things from Eparch's side, it's really tragic since he was only acting by his nature to feed when he was hungry, but if you see things from Isgarren's side then it's completely different. To quote Isgarren in the last instance of SotO: "I do not act without careful consideration. I have lived a long time with the consequences of my prior impulsiveness", he acted on impulse and saved Eparch, only to be "betrayed" by Eparch later. There is really no right or wrong in their coflict (at first). And by the way we learn in JW Waiting Sorrow did a similar thing to him (He saved her and she abandoned the court without explanation later). I feel like Mabon's early discription of Isgarren being naive is really accurate, and maybe these two event influenced Isgarren's character to become cautious and slow at taking action.
ravenramsey3115: I think the note that Mabon made about the Realm of Dreams being their true home- I think that's a Kryptis talking to him- the one that's possessing him when we kill it and him. I don't think Nyos is the Mursot's true home.
DerenMusic: Crazy Kodan/Norn theory.

1) We know a "voiceless" claw took some Kodan south during an earlier dragonrise. Their fur turned brown and became became the lowland Kodan we know today.

2) We know some lowland Kodan went to Orr, and this was controversial with the shiverpeak Kodan. But the problem solved itself somehow, and now its kinda water under the bridge (according to Tyrian Alliance meeting with Stoic Alder)

3) Some Kodan believe Norn are lesser versions of Kodan. We also don't know where Norn came from.

4) The Gods came to Orr. We also know the Gods looked favourably upon the Norn at some point, "According to Thrulnn the Lost, before their fall the jotun and norn were favored by the Six Human Gods and granted magic that led the races to prominence."

The crazy theory: Some lowland Kodan went to Orr. The Gods came, and somehow those Kodan became more human-like, becoming Norn. Likely due to worship, affiliation, use of magic, unbalance, or something. Which is why the other Kodan disapproved. Then the issue resolved itself with the gods leaving, Orr sinking, or those Kodan becoming Norn (e.g. no longer Kodan). This would finally explain why Norn look like humans, when humans are a relatively recent addition to Tyria.

There's probably some Norn history tidbit that disproves this. It seems unlikely to be true tbh. But it's a mad "connect the dots" theory that popped into my head while listening to you. Thoughts?

Sep 08 2024

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