KLGChaos: The whole thing about not realizing how good you are at a game is definitely on point.

I always believed I was an average Destiny 2 player because I'm always around others who are either masters at the game either PvE or PvP wise.

Then when I started doing LFG groups for Grand Master Strikes and Excision, I realized that the average player is way less skilled than I expected. People who would die a dozen times to my two.

lordhughmungus: It's mind-boggling to me that anyone could find Viper troublesome. It seems like a job designed to parse well with minimal brain power.

Xport9: VPR isn't that tough. It's super easy to play. People are wildin'.

And it is pretty apparent, they didn't spent a lot of time on Striking Dummies to figure out how it actually works.

Thaedriel: Casual player here. I think people just need some time to settle in with viper, without all the traits leading up to lvl100, it does feel a bit strange. But when you get to 100, everything makes sense and it's (for me) the most fun class in the game. It's essentially what I wish fury warrior would've been, there's literally no down-time at lvl100. Picto on the other hand, I just don't have the patience for that type of class, but people are fine with it I'm guessing?

Asin24: The issue with Viper is the positionals is one of the few ways to show skill with the job. It's an extremely simple job where positionals are the only real thing that give it a bit of thought and skill. I'm fine if they put something in to give the class more of a skill ceiling and took away a few positionals, but that isn't being done. There is no reason it should be changed now until they have something to give viper more of a difference between the skill floor and ceiling.

JH-pj8nw: The only thing I don't understand about this is that players can be all the jobs on one character, so I'm not sure why people would push to change something due to difficulty. Some jobs are already harder to play than others.

GrimMorningstar: Next expansion I would much rather have them go back and update the older jobs to how smoothly the viper and pico play now than have new jobs.

ludekcortex: In terms of casual players accessibility in Dawntrail dungeons I noticed something funny.

Trusts/Bots were created to allow more casual audience participate in dungeons without having to interact with other people, but they actually make the dungeons harder.

With other human players, even if you cannot play at all and stand in every fire, they are still able to ress/carry you through fights. While with trusts/bots, the fight wipes as soon as you die.

On top of that the fights tend to last longer as NPC-s do less damage, so you need to dodge more mechanics cycles on average.

DarkMichael9: They don't want more combat systems. They're happy with their consistency. Positionals are the somewhat DPS agnostic "skill-check" feature they've landed on, and making it so failing them doesn't block class mechanics anymore (because it used to), sealed that deal. I assume the Viper changes will be to bring it in line with the other melees that were revamped: Literally, purely, only the finisher. Reaper does it a bit different with the spenders instead, but it's the same logic. I don't know why people are freaking out.

loopywatwat: An incredibly thoughtful perspective. Essentially, there is no clear cut answer on what makes something fun. It is the holy grail of game design. We all have different perspectives and game devs unfortunately have to juggle all of those perspectives against their own design goals.

SoFishtry: As an outsider, it strikes me as strange that the game can support very high end progress raiding, but it can't support a class that's a bit harder than baseline. Surely it's just not that big a deal if one or two classes is harder to perform well on, especially if most content is tuned to avoid frustrating fail states?

hennyzhi2261: I think Mishapenchair had it right - no amount of easing down on job difficulty will appease the people who honestly just don't want to put much thought into it. And I think its fine to be mediocre in FF14. It's not a game that forces you to be sweaty, and it's not a game you can just plow through by the time you reach later expansions. But it's also very forgiving. I'm messing up so much going into these new DT dungeons/trials on certain things that don't click in my brain yet - but we still get clears and even with 1-2 vuln stacks, not even getting knocked down. If these kneejerk changes are anything to go by I'd bet it's a vocal minority who are seeing another vocal minority, and taking things far too seriously far too soon because the numbers they do on the screen mean more to them than just clearing the content. Most people aren't hyper casual or a hard core raider, but those small groups stretch the game in ways that are drastic not commensurate with the overall player base.

ZombieSlayerTakashi: You need to get with MrHappy on his Podcast. I would love hear you two discuss this

BorgWolf359: Love the vid! Viper is the easiest job I have ever played! I have played them all except Pictomancer! Viper doesn't have button bloat & the transition buttons are awesome! It is so smooth & sexy in my book! Leave my Viper alone please! Positionals are easy; red is butt & green is side!

Sovietmass: Of the two new jobs I feel if any of the two would be complained about for being too hard it would be Pictomancer. Viper is alot a simpler of the two and you don't have to setup as much as Pictomancer does.

Viltreta: Anyone who thinks that the majority of an mmo's playerbase isn't casual needs to go tank for a year. I've seen dps who didn't even know they could rebind their keys in 20s in WoW. Honestly I don't mind and I'm ok with them building games towards this large audience. As long as I have ways to express my skills and content that requires more effort I'll find something to do.

TheChunkeyNinja: Positionals aren't particularly interesting but it works well enough for small gains. Only changes to Viper I'd like to see is combining the Coil and Den spells into one button each. Having two keys for each when they can't ever be used at the same time is silly. Also I don't think its necessary for the coil spells to be positional, positionals on the main combo is enough.

NormFC: I will say, all comments aside from the job balancing and changes. This launch was an absolute delight. I never had to worry about logging in. I had no issues playing the game and enjoying it how it was intended to be experienced. Unlike other MMOS and Other Triple A titles who have some how managed to fail at releasing their titles, this was a breath of fresh air and honestly set a standard I will expect going forward.

Jul 08 2024

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