shadowxps: I like that in the context of elden ring we can say “banished to the shadow realm” with zero hint of irony
whoisj: "Honey, put everything down and come here! There's a new TA video!"
your_neko: Prediction of Melina's dead body is a nice touch.
Also, I would expect to find her personal Fingers dead, and possibly her shadow beast - because she could be an Empyrean.
anthonyzeedyk406: I think it's pretty clear that the first burning of the Erdtree was to gain access to the Elden Ring, a lot like the second time. "Queen Marika's trespass" was a literal trespass into the Erdtree where she shattered the Elden Ring.
euphoricganjanath5625: I was about to go hollow and just like that Tarnished appears like a soft, warm, bonfire
HopeiThis: When Morgott speaks of our Tarnished being “emboldened by the flame of ambition,” could he mean our newfound strength in runes granted to us by the flame of ambition, Melina?
cerberus2534: Fire not only brings death, but also rebirth for new, fresh, and stronger life. Life can only thrive when death is present, for death is the one to bring meaning to life. Immortal ones do not "live forever," but actually "decay eternally" in their perpetual state of infinity.
danidrinx7842: People call bullshit on a lot of the conclusions you draw, but man, I really think you nailed it. I think your timeline is probably about as close as we're gonna get to a true history of Elden Ring.
bronowiczj: You sir are a treasure to this community. Thank you!
lordptk4115: This was basically my first theory when the DLC trailer came out. If Messmer was the one who burned first the Erdtree, the only way the timeline makes sense for me is, that the first burning and the shattering of the Elden Ring are two entirely separate events. During the Age of Plenty (Godfrey's reign) Messmer burns the Erdtree, ending the Age of Plenty and making the Snake a traitor, which leads to the Snakes being fought in the Colloseums, and Messmer banished to the Shadow Realm (which I think was created earlier when the Rune of Death was separated from the Elden Ring). The Shattering of the Elden Ring and the ensuing events happened later. The issue is, that this doesn't fit super nicely with your theme of cyclical burns of the Erdtree and the Golden Seed item description, which clearly talkes about the Shattering, but also makes a lot of sense to be connected with the burning, following your forest-fire/pine-cone story.
purpleguy3000: This is probably the best counter to the Melina is Miquella theory I've heard so far and whether one wins or they both tie together I can't wait to jump into the DLC
Nemo12417: A theory I've had about the Land of Shadow and the Lion Dancer specifically: the Land of Shadow is tied to the Lands Between in a sort of "as above, so below" way, and the Lion Dancer is a sort of spiritual reflection of the Golden Lineage. The lion, of course, is Godfrey. The lightning represents Godwyn at his height and the smoke it exhales is Godwyn at his nadir, and it also has Omen horns, for Morgott and Mogh.
drusas_achamian: Great video. I think the timeline is greatly clarified if we assume that each burning of the Erdtree is associated to the fall of an Elden Lord, and the ending of an age. There are then two important rebellions against the Erdtree, which should not be conflated.

The first was engineered by Melina and Messmer, and likely resulted in: the first burning of the Erdtree, the removal of the Lands of Shadow from the Lands Between, the removal of Destined Death from the Elden Ring, Godfrey's fall from grace, and the end of the Age of Plenty. Likely Melina can also be identified with the GEQ, but this is not essential. Narratively it is not clear why this should have caused Godfrey's fall, but thematically it all checks out. Godfrey's purpose was to defeat the giants and confine the Flame of Ruin, allowing the Erdtree to grow. If the Erdtree burned, Godfrey failed in his essential duty. Moreover Godfrey is strongly associated with the Crucible, which in turn is associated to the Lands of Shadow. On the other hand Godfrey is not associated with the Golden Order - that's all Radagon. So I think the removal of the Lands of Shadow, the removal of Destined Death, the change in attitude to the Crucible, Godfrey's fall, and the end of the Age of Plenty/beginning of the Golden Order should all line up. Maybe the Liurnian wars were already underway at this time and Radagon was immediately recalled, or maybe there was a long interval in between - I don't think we have the information to decide.

The second (important) rebellion against the Erdtree was led by Ranni and Rykard (direct, conscious parallels to Melina and Messmer): The Night of Black Knives, the Shattering, and the end of the Golden Order and Radagon's reign. Importantly, this plot was not completed - it does not seem that Rykard succeeded in burning the Erdtree (or perhaps he burned it, but could not gain access to it to kill Radagon, his forces being repulsed by Morgott? This would then account for the recent layer of ash, which Messmer's actions seem too distant in the timeline to explain.) Additionally, Radahn arrested Ranni's fate. It is not until we burn the Erdtree and defeat Radagon that this second age transition is completed (according to the original plan only if we align with Ranni).

Marika's own intentions in both instances are obscure (of course). Melina says that her purpose was given to her by her mother, inside the Erdtree - this may have been before or after the first rebellion.

I wonder also whether the well-developed, corporeal Minor Erdtrees are the results of seeds flown from the first burning, and only the small illusory ones where we find Golden Seeds the result of the Shattering. It would make sense that seeds from the original corporeal tree would produce corporeal offspring, whereas seeds from the Erdtree as we know it would produce illusory trees. The fact that the tree in the Minor Erdtree Church has a similar appearance to the tree in the Land of Shadow supports this. It also seems probable that that church was constructed before the Shattering, since Marika's monologue at that location declares her "intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order" - unlikely to have occurred after she shattered the Elden Ring!
HANIMEME: yo Ratatoskr was wondering if he could have you on for a podcast episode to talk about lore stuff, you really should, it would be cool to hear you talk about lore stuff in an unscripted way, that way you can maybe expand upon certain ideas that you didn't get into videos. either way, im so glad you've been posting more elden ring lore videos. So hyped to see more in the next few months!!
DomPreciso: Ah man I love that Vernor Herzog clip! Props
Quader417: I’m only 7 min in so I’m sure you’ll address it, but assuming the erd tree burned during the shattering that highly supports the theory that the current erd tree is a sort of “phantom” tree and has literally burned before and only those chosen by grace can see it now bc it’s no longer physically there. Amazing how much speculation we could gather from the very beginning
samwizgamgie3rd828: Oh man, its been staring in my face all this time, I would have just ignore the ash everywhere at first coming to Lyndell.
sniperfity2327: I imagine the timeline is about, age of ancients, age of beasts, age of warriors( godfreys rein and the buring of the erdtree), age of faith/golden order, age of heresy( the shattering), and the modern age. Where society is rebuilding again rallying behind new and old banners
exquisitedoomlapointe185: There is a theory out there that states that the first burning is in fact of the shadow tree, which heavily implies the lands of shadow to be in the center of the map and that the leyndell ashes are from the shadow tree, which would be near Leyndell. But this would mean the erdtree seeds came from this tree and that the illusory tree doesn't exist. Perhaps the very veil covers the shadowtree and turns it into the erdtree we know into an object of worship. It also implies that we are burning both trees. This theory fits so beautifully that i expect it to be completely falsified on release, lol.

May 16 2024

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