naughtiousmaximus7853: Backstab Hornsent. Dryleaf kick Hornsent into Abyssal Woods. Mandatory Hornsent vigor check. Slay Hornsent. Fallingstar Beast charge Hornsent off the cliff.
KaiserMazoku: This revelation is quite...jarring.
chronovac: I think it is also important to note that the Living Jars of the Erdtree don't seem to seek out the living to add to themselves, instead they scavenge bodies, thus not condemning any more to the same fate of the Shamans.
worthlessclericbuild3866: The way that Marika did everything in her power to transform perhaps one of the most horrific fates for her people into a position of honour and reverence is certainly one of the most sympathetic and human aspects of her character
TheWarmachine375: After Marika ascended as a god and formed her Golden Order, she sent Messmer to go for a walk to the Land of Shadow.

A very enthusiastic walk.
Daldaren: The DLC really ended up telling more of Marika's story than Miquella's. They really fleshed out some of the motivations and made her more human in ways I did not expect.
cachaçaalchemist: Marika's reversal of the Jar symbology seems like a nod to Christianity. Romans crucified anyone for almost any reason, making the torturous and (as remarked by people of the time) morally degrading death on a cross to be the centerpiece of psychological operation to strike fear into anyone who dares to step out of line. Ironically, this instrument of death became the symbol of rebirth.
As someone who grew up in a mainly catholic country is easy to forget that you're looking at a instrument of gruesome torture.
jessicah3065: I theorized a few weeks ago that the "melding" property of the shamans is probably what allowed godrick to perform his grafting, considering his lineage, and that both might be due to the split-self trait that marika and miquela have, which could be the actual thing that made the shamans unique. aside from their disconnection from the crucible I guess.
LMSH: How jarring...
TheWarmachine375: Imagine an alternate timeline of the Hornset not stuffing the people of Marika's village into the jars and Marika never went to the path of becoming a god in the first place.
tnoztnoz3547: I think it's worth noting that there was one Bonnie village potentate that was horrified by his people's practice of jarring others. He wrote cookbooks about stuffing jars with anything but living people. I initially thought that he might've been the person who founded Jarburg, to redefine what a potentate was.
daefaron: It's insane how people still don't understand the jars in the DLC and the Jars in the base game are different. Hopefully this video helps spread that knowledge.
sorencampbell7138: The use of the word “saint” in the innard meat description makes me think Leda’s “They were never saints, they just happened to be on the losing side of a war” line has a double meaning.
jameswilcox511: Truly the most horrifying revelation of the DLC. Ugh.
tttttttttttttttp12: I know a theme of the dlc is cycles of violence, but I can't help but despise the Hornsent for subjecting the Shamans to that fate.
XSoul93: Just imagine the Jar in front of the coliseum in Caelid. Bro has an entire civilization inside
tbyk1677: Never thought i would learn about jar people being used as tree fertilizer, but here we are.
TheWarmachine375: The Jar Innards made up of Marika's village people have no mouths and they must scream.
ashencometmom5291: the fact that the reaction to the game saying "marika committed atrocities because she was once the pained underdog trying to make the world a better place, like many in the lands between are doing with the very world that she created" has largely been "ok so the hornsent started everything and it's all their fault" has been amusing. the message of elden ring is that the cycle of violence repeats itself, but only twice, the first guys are the real bad guys
menialbee: I'm surprised you never mentioned the hospital area in shadow keep that seems to be used for trying to heal or separate the shamans from inside the jars.
jacksonbenincosa3759: The fact that Miyazaki and his team was able to give an everyday item, a simple tool, like a jar/pot, such a prominent historical/cultural role in a fantasy setting as complex and grand as Eldenring, and manages to deeply connect it to to Marika, the most important character of the lore and story, is a testament to how talented they are as worldbuilders and writers.
sky_pirate: Comments: Jar puns.
My brain: "It's the IMPLICATION of danger."
TwighlightLugia: I'd like to point out that multiple sources on the Japanese version of ER have said that the "become good" part of the Japanese dialogue is meant derogatorially. Basically it means "be a good little shrine maiden and get in the damn jar like you're supposed to."
dasninjastix: "Stews of melded flesh" is how I've often described my cooking. I reserved the name in case I ever released a metal album.
Chamomileable: Should note that a "potentate" doesn't have anything to do with pots IRL and is just wordplay. An actual potentate is any kind of ruler with a level of authority that allows the law to bend to their will. The interpretation within the game lore might be that the potentates are powerful enough to bend the shaman and the jar ritual to their will for rebirth. Or it could just be a pun, who knows.
regular_user9886: When i learn pottery, ill make me an alexander-themed flowerpot
realkingofantarctica: Imagine the reveal of walking into Consort Radahn's arena for the first time, and when the camera finally pans up to his face, it's covered by an enormous, overturned jar. Radahn was not revived with the remains of Mohg; Jar Bairn came along and ate his corpse after he set off in Alexander's footsteps.
sperglordmcgee60: i remember seeing a post somewhere that the symbols on the soreseals look very similar to the symbol on the shaman-flesh's forehead, which would be a neat detail if intentional.
SerpenSquamata: Alexander my beloved.
minutemancl: The statues of Marika we find everywhere, both in the land of Shadow and in the Lands Between, have her depicted with a large, billowing robe or cloak behind her. This really does mimic the same shape of the jar innards that crawl out of the jars in the gaols. Thought that was interesting.
Radditz770: It's interested to note that the Greatjar helmet talks about how the Shamans used to bury their dead in jars and pray to them to be reborn as "saints", that it was a manmade way of dealing with death and rebirth.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting that, but it seems to me that the jar-stuffing was originally a shaman burial rite that was taken by the hornsent as a form of torture against their enemies.

It would also explain what you wrote towards the end of the video, that Marika might find comfort in the way the jars are used in her Golden Order. Perhaps because that's how her people used the jars to begin with before the hornsent co-opted it.
FangOriona: We now know what's inside them, I wish I didn't know now
bakendorf_4802: I like that Marika spared her people by turning their punishment into an honor.
toreole5831: "haha funny pot people"

"oh.... no..."

thanks miyazaki
SpaceManFive: Additionally, in the bottom of Messmer's castle, there's what looks like a medieval operating room where a bunch of jar innards wander. Some are mobile and fight you. Others are laying on beds. Someone pointed out that it looks like they were potentially trying to salvage the people subjected to this fate.
MitridatedCarbon: The gaols are built around ancient dynasty ruins. The giant coffins belong to the ancient dynasty, sport low res copies of elden john and are covered in serpents carvings. Putrescence is called Mud in japanese and the claymen of the ancient dynasty are called "mud men". mud/clay could technically be used in pottery to bind a jar together, to mix the material armoniously. If we are talking about living jars, and the "mud" is an immortal body who turns into putrescence instead of dying, maybe the shamans are all part of the ancient dynasty. Would explain why the jars have the same legs and arms of the claymen
cosmicseraph: I went back to Jarburg cause it reminded me of happier times with the lil jar dude sitting by the stairs
solderingiron1008: A crucible by definition is a jar-like container used to melt substances together, so the Hornsent used crucibles to reach the Crucible
Ghost_gc: So the hornsent had this bizarre tradition of chopping down those they considered inferior or simply "evil", then stuffing them into jars for a twisted rebirth they considered "saint". This gives some context to the furnace golems; messmer returned the favor to the hornsent, a thousand times over.
cabanonurgent2862: Babe wake up, new zullie post!!
gabbycotto4024: It’s kinda weird that Marika has such bad Hornsent trauma that she started a pogrom for all Crucible-marked in her empire, but one Greater Potentate apparently not only got out of the Shadowlands, he openly practiced and taught his Jar-necromancy enough that it became a semi-popular alternative to Tree Burial. Wait, Jarburg is in Liurnia, is that the reason she declared war on them twice?
jamilgf: >be FromSoftware
>makes a joyfull NPC that becomes fan favorite
>Send gift to the Guy that is killing ur hardest boss while using the Jar head piece
>creates small jar enemies that are really cute
>engrain jar imagery into ur player minds as something cool that brings u joy
>wait 2 years
>give them some dark and disturbing lore
>makes players sad

THEY PLAYED US A DAAM FIDDLE
vyor8837: One must grieve for Marika at times.
The88Kings: Do you remember that shot from the trailer where Miquella removes the veil in a cutscene and Miyazaki himself talking about the veil seen in the game? Yeah, none of that can be seen in the final game; it seems a lot of stuff got cut or rewritten between the trailers and the final game.
DropKickEddy: Diallos also winds up becoming jar innards after being posthumously stuffed into Jar Bairn. He also drops a numen rune.
alexcoleman6199: Unfortunate that Marikas jars were then hunted for their innards, making a sort of inverse on how it went with the hornscent jars, where they hunted heretics to then be placed in jars.
jeebus_christ: I’m not saying marika was correct in her approach, but I understand.
curryquipique6098: The mark on shaman's forehead in the living jars is not Saint Trina for me, but Marika and Radagon's soreseal/scareseal put together. That would be linked to the original sin mentioned in the game, but never clarified. Marika is somewhat responsible in the creation of the Saint Jars. Maybe the original sin is that she has done that, it's because of her that the experiment was possible and that's why the hornsents revered her too. Maybe she wanted to become a god to change that, being able to separate elements, but she couldn't and that's why she turned against the hornsents and sent Messmer to them.

And that could be Marika's curse: to alter the fabric of the living, willingly or unwillingly, even though her most precious wish is to stop people around her from changing and from the ultimate change, death, all because of her. For example, her children being cursed/possessed by outer gods and even her being possessed by the elden ring and elden beast.

We know that body and soul are 2 separate entities, thanks to Godwyn's soul death and Rani's flesh death. We know that Shaman bodies mixes easily with others' fleshes. But maybe it applies also to the soul of the Shaman. That would explain why only her children are easily possessed and cursed, since she is a shaman. And maybe to become a god, she had to let go of her body as Radagon (the lord of the ascension to godhood) and she became the spirit (like Miquella) and she inhabited the body of Radagon. Or maybe Marika was a successful Jar Saint, being both male and female (the alchemical Rebis, the divine hermaphrodite, more than man and female alone), and later she discarded the Radagon who was also in the jar with her when they fuse.
jbark678: I like the idea that Marika was, in a way, a created being. Like she was the only jar "saint" to successfully become an embodiment of the crucible.
gestalt7529: If there was an interactable Jar Saint npc in a Jar Gaol, that would’ve added so much to the area. I think it’s a missed opportunity
DC-FTW: I'm also pretty sure that the jar's purpose in the age of the golden order was the corpse wax they produced, as that is the main ingredient in the creation of gargoyles.

Aug 06 2024

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