wanderinglich7561: 1 point you may have forgotten that helps with your theory is that marika is a shaman, and that the shaman are said to have a unique trait that allows them to converge and bind together with others harmoniously.
Silenthero66: Bruh that overlaying showing the vetruvian man blew my fucking mind
shiddingfarting2675: Radagon’s Icon says “thus did the hero aspired to be complete.” If Radagon is the pieces of a once complete pre-godhood Marika, this completeness could be more overt, in that he literally wanted to complete his being.
jackplisken4738: Radagon is just T-Posing his dominance
2DFightergaming: Interesting theory... But, there's something worth thinking about: In the base game, when you fight Radagon. You clearly see Marika's corpse fall from the cross (the rune) and transform into Radagon's corpse being controlled by the Elden Beast. You see her hair turn from gold, to red, before you fight. I think this shows us that Marika never got rid of Radagon. She's always retained the ability to transform into him... even in death. They've always remained 1. The Elden Beast even uses this ability while controlling Marika's corpse.

Miquella, on the other hand, removed St. Trina from his physical form and dropped her into the fissure. I have no idea why St. Trina looks like a strangely, beheaded flower mutant. But with that, Miquella permanently removed a part of himself "love" that physically manifested into whatever it is St. Trina looks like. There's indication that this was a violent removal of part of his physical form as well. In order to find St Trina, you're literally following a trail of her blood (the blood manifests as purple flowers). The flowers are called the Nectarblood Burgeon.

Miquella has no physical form after he becomes a god, in his own way. He basically has to take Radahn's spirit, and Mogh's body, and control them through his charms.

Marika does still have her physical form after becoming a god. She marries and even has children with Godfrey and Renalla, before she... basically marries herself. Marika physically plays the role of the mother (when she's Marika married to Godfrey), and the father (when she's Radagon married to Renalla), in the act of giving birth on multiple occasions. You can't do that without a physical form. So Marika and Miquella's paths to godhood weren't identical. And the end results weren't identical.

Remember as well, Marika was also aided by the Fingers, who gave her the Erdtree seed. Miquella, was just doing his own thing through his charms. So, the results are different because the process is different.

A strange thing about Marika/Radagon... I don't recall anything that talks about them both being present at the same time. There's a church on the eastern side of Liurnia where you learn about the marriage ceremony between Radagon and Renalla. But there was no such ceremony between Marika and Radagon. 

When Marika is sealed inside the Ertree, Radagon also vanishes. No one knows what happened to Radagon, until you enter the Erdtree and see Marika's corpse transform into him (controlled by the Elden Beast). This is why the "Marika IS Radagon" is such a plot twist in the base game. Just my 2 cents.
Alurazle: Saint Trina was miquella's love discarded, I'd imagine thats why marika abandoned Messmer because she discarded 'humanity' and didn't feel like a loving mother to him after becoming a god.
raracosi: The thing about Marika's ascension is that the trailer implies it went differently than expected. It speaks of a betrayal while she is pulling the golden threads from a corpse. The threads that she then seems to use to ascend to godhood. She also has no lord with her at the moment, which makes me wonder, if the creature she killed was supposed to be the god of the new age and she was to be the lord. In that case, Radagon would be the vessel corpse and she would be the soul. It still works with the theory that Radagon is the body and Marika is the spirit, but in a different way.
JackisaMimic: Excellent video! I think you figured it out. This video really just unlocked a whole new understanding of Elden Ring for me. I have been theorizing that Radagon may have been her abandoned flesh and first consort but I couldn't determine why Marika would need that to be the case, but you figured it out! This video is going to be a huge inspiration for me moving forward.
olavotoledo8870: the Radahn and Miquella plot has Martin fingerprints all over it
Asankeket: Miquella's journey reminds me of Inanna's descent into the Underworld, as interpreted in the light of Jungian psychology as a journey towards completion through a ritual death and rebirth. And I don't think divesting yourself of anything makes you more complete as such, but rather that through that journey you acquire the ability to re-integrate that which you divested yourself of, in order to achieve completion. The question is, did that journey fail for those who attempted it in this story? Godhood in this universe does not seem to be a desirable fate.
robertwells3890: So the only issue I've got is that the braid in the shaman village is golden kinda implying that Marika was born Marika and later became Radagon.
jaredcullum117: This makes a lot of sense. Ranni divested herself of her flesh as well, inhabiting a puppet of the one she idolized, which was clearly an important step toward allowing her to rise to godhood under the full moon.
goodgoat: i LOVE the vitruvian man imagery i never even thought of that. makes so much sense.
rclaws3230: I might agree with this, except St. Trina is divested from Miquella in whole- if wilting -form, and Miquella does not want St. Trina back at all. Also, Melina's recital of the "not yet become me" tale is rather encompassing of Marika and Radagon's relationship prior to their merging. There's no mention of prior association between Radagon and Marika. Plus Miquella acquires Radahn as the physical manifestation of his order, which suggests that regression/convergence is not a prerequisite for the physical manifestation.

It's not IMPOSSIBLE that Radagon is Marika's original flesh, but that's a lot of layers of heritage (Radagon being descended from fire giants, Marika being the last of the shaman) to dig through, and I'm not sure it survives Occam's Razor.

Interesting theory though.
roramdin: i do feel like a lot of elden ring lore content is lacking thematic analysis, which i get from your stuff! to me Elden Ring seems to be about the prison of godhood, the endless cycle of striving to achieve it, corrupting the world, and begging for release. In Miquella we see a parallel to Marika, and in St Trina we see the grieving, restless (ironically) conscience of Miquella, begging to be stopped from achieving godhood. To be freed from the responsibility and weight of it all. It's fitting, then, that we as a character are mostly stripped of agency - usually taking the role of the Elden Lord and ushering in another's aspirational vision for the next thousand year voyage. We are Tarnished, the catalyst of decay and destruction, the inciting agent of a new prison for a new god. The consort of whatever comes next. Our role is essentially Consort Radahn's role, and at the end of the DLC, in a sense, we fight an incarnation of our own purpose and futility. A mindless manifestation of war and violence.
joesaiditstrue: Marika doesn't want Hewg to craft a weapon to kill her, she wants the tarnished to kill Radagon (her current consort). Rodrika mentions the weapon is for Marika, but remember: she's totally unaware that Radagon is Marika (as well as being her Consort). Here's the thing though, she sent the tarnished on this journey to become her consort before she was locked up in the erdtree. Meaning, killing Radagon isnt gonna save Marika, she's done at this point (the game kinda lets you know this when her head completely falls off). This is why the Elden Beast spawns after Radagon dies: The vassal of the Elden Ring has been released upon the death of Marika Radagon
detekOP: I’ve been thinking about this for a long time…..I always thought due to how little history radagon had he was once part of Marika but they split and then became one again at a later point
guidagennaio: right after you said "she had suffered long enough" something falls off Marika's eye like a teardrop.
Sylentmana: I think the assassination of Godwyn was the breaking point for her and she realized that everything she’d done had led up to this point and she just wanted to end it all so in a fit of grief and sorrow she shattered the Elden Ring and commissioned Hewg to forge a weapon that could kill her. Not necessarily in that order.
Lena-de2ws: I think Miquella divested himself because he wanted completly a new era. That's why he had to get rid of from his golden flesh.
Also we can see St. Trina as physically. Miquella didn't divest Trina. He divested her from himself.

It was to this land that Miquella departed.
Divesting himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage.
Of all things Golden.

Ranni also does same. She wants a new era, that's why she only kills her body. Because she didn't want to slave to Golden Order. Otherwise, she could easily reach to Godhood.

Lastly, I suppose Marika don't want to kill herself. She might ordered a weapon to kill a God for Radagon. Because in the end we kill Radagon not Marika. Marika stays as God and we became her lord.
Just as Marika wanted.
LordKnightBane: Age of Order, has always been my favorite, blocking changes to the Elden Ring means we (the Lord) essentially take over in whatever way see fit. Though I can see FS pushing for the Ranni ending to be canon. Not only do we see Grace guiding us towards it but also just the amount of extra work/effort they put into it shows that.

Also I wonder with Marika/Radagon's body being made of stone is that suggesting their age being 'ancient', seems to be a FS thing to show something ancient as having stone skin (looking at you ancient dragons and turtle Pope).
Brutalyte616: I have a personal theory.

When Marika and Godfrey waged war against the Fire-Giants and the Fell-God, as well as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, Radagon is never mentioned, yet when Radagon does enter the story he loathes his red hair for its resemblance to the Fire Giants, and Marika has two children, Messmer and Melina, who both have red or reddish hair and an association with fire, while Messmer developed an association with the Abyssal Serpent and Melina supposedly developed an association with the Gloam-Eyed Queen based on the Frenzied Flame ending where she intends to deliver unto us Destined Death, which was previously the purview of the Gloam-Eyed Queen before Marika and Maliketh defeated her and claimed the Rune of Death for themselves.

My theory thus is that at some point, Marika picked up traces of these beings, and they manifested as Radagon, Messmer, and Melina. The birth of Messmer and Melina prompted Marika to separate those elements from herself in the form of Radagon, hence why Radagon and Godfrey are never identified as their father but Marika is undoubtedly their mother.

Radagon likewise purged himself of these influences by having children with Rennala, while also improving upon himself and the Golden Order by mastering Carian sorcery and incorporating it into the Golden Order's doctrine in accordance with the Law of Regression.

When Radagon and Marika joined together again, the Marika-Radagon Rebis was still impure and two distinct entities from one another, and so Miquella and Malenia were born to divest Marika-Radagon of those perceived flaws, yet Marika still considered Radagon to be imperfect; 'Thou art yet to become me. Thou art yet to become a god.' And thus did the two come into conflict after the Night of the Black Knives and the death of Godwyn, when Marika shattered the Elden Ring despite Radagon's attempts to stop her and mend it back together.
drjack511: I always thought the butterflies were fragments of Marika and Radagon "shattering" themselves to become one. The pieces left over became Miquella, Malenia, and Melina.
Now this makes me think Messmer and Melina could have been born from the fragments of Marika originally divesting herself and Radagon. While the other two Ms were born from the re-merger later on.
hellspawn22001: There is also a concept in alchemy called the Rebis. Basically one person who is male and female, spiritual and physical at the same time. It is the magnum opus of any alchemist. I wonder if Marika was born a hermaphrodite and when she became define transformed into a Rebis, “growing” a new physical body.
anonisnoone6125: Would've been nice if we actually got more info about Radagon. The dlc fumbled so much in the lore department imo. Even the Gloam Eyed Queen was completely forgotten.
myles5096: Yeah I believe that marika and ranni have been working together and were behind the shattering. Marika realized after becoming a god, it felt like a caged divinity (referencing st. trina's words). Thus, she conspired with Ranni to help her, who aspired to become a god too.
ScumMageInfa: Mate

The super imposing of radagon and marika
micdraypr1855: Swing on the spiral
of our Divinity
And still be a human
-Tool
medoh: I dont buy that Marika had to divest herself same as miquella. After Messmer was born the FEAR of the abyssal snake in his eye made her secret him away. Miquella did all that to divide himself from the erdtree and the original sin. Marika failed at making the golden order exactly because she still had all this fears, doubt, fate(radagon). Yet even divesting himself of all this things doesnt help because as Yimir says, it because the mother is flawed. Trina mentions that godhood is a caged divinity and perhaps thats why a god needs a lord? to act as the hand outside the cage.

Jul 04 2024

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